[sassimicah]

some of you including me have been wondering whats keeping arnold render and when it maybe made availed for the likes of softimage and maya of course. so hers is an interview with the lead software engineer marcos fajardo

Ray Tracing News, Volume 23, Number 1

with lots of news and the future of the g.i based renderer.which has an impressive list of credits to it ....i don't know should i say may become the number 2 behind renderman in animation production rendering????. i know some mental rayers are in shock but anyways follow the link for the interview.

[kole]

Not no2, but no1, Renderman is becoming obsolete. Sony already is kicking it out of their pipeline.

[yukon_28]

Yeah, i remember this arnold thingy, "Duke Nukem Forever"of CG...

Interesting article, but i don't think it can take any serious market share even if released finally, let alone "may become the number 2 behind renderman",not even number 22, it's to late. There is already big number of very strong players on both biased and unbiased rendering fields, they are used for many years in pipelines of different studios, small and big, to be even considered as replacement for any of those you should offer something really groundbreaking.

[yukon_28]

Links:

What a bullshit, LOL!

[TheGreatFezz]

Links:

Not bullishit at all. We use Arnold here at our studio, everything that is being said about it is true. It is YOU that have no fucking clue.

TGF

[yukon_28]

Links:

Oh, excuse my ignorance! If YOU and YOUR studio (ILM perhaps? Or DD?) use Arnold, that's a different story, it change everything, sure. Who is fucking cares that there is no single blockbuster movie since early 90's that does not use prman (or other renderman renderer), it's obsolete because TheGreatFezz studios using Arnold, renderer that majority of today's productions never touched and never heard about! LOL, please excuse my ignorance again!

[kole]

Yukon chill out with you language. Go and talk to your mom like that not me!


Here is interesting article of Larry Girtz about future of Renderman, u all will probably know who is he.

Links:

Links:

Every mid or large size studio have Arnold in their pipeline already, because you do not know that doesn't mean that it is not true, it means that you are not informed well or, as I said earlier, just ignorant dude.
Nobody says that Renderman is not good or it will die tomorrow, but REYES algorithm is old, only advantage of it is almost free displacement. Today CPU and GPU are way better than in time when REYES was designed.

[TheGreatFezz]

Links:

Now everyone can see what a complete jackass you are.

Wow.

TGF

[TheGreatFezz]

Links:

BTW - Larry is a very active member of the Arnold list... that says a LOT.

TGF

[kole]

Yeah, man just realized how things are today. And he was one of the greatest promoters of Renderman.

[TheGreatFezz]

yukon_28,

In the interest of keeping things more polite and civil between us let's just say this. It's cool if you don't have much belief or faith in Arnold, after all why should you...as far as I know your not currently using it or working with it so how would you know.

Things with Arnold are moving forward and in a big way only it is happening very quietly behind the scenes. It will be released and when it is I predict that all hell is going to break loose. You will get your chance to evaluate it and when you do you will have an opportunity to make more educated assessments regarding its usefulness.

I've been using it for quite sometime now and I'm telling you that IMHO it is the best render engine any of us have ever used for a great many reasons. You may not believe this, but just give things a bit more time, I think you are going to see a huge paradigm shift within the industry once this is released.

Till then it has been and will continue to be adopted by more and more studios quietly behind the scenes. Believe me, Arnold is changing things in a big way and that trend will continue...you WILL see "blockbusters" being done with Arnold, I can assure you.

Peace.

TGF

[yukon_28]

Links:

That's a bull... Oh well, it just plain wrong.

About REYES, I'd agree that it's not solution for every problem, and unlike 10 years ago, it's can't be used for everything today. But hey, there is already raytracing and GI in renderman renderers, IHO hybrids is the way to go. Also speaking about raytracers, there is state-of-the-art, well known and well-developed tools, such as vray that breaks from archvis to film more and more in the recent years, there is mental ray that is used in every pipeline to some extent. There is unbiaced pathtracers that also taking their place in productions, and not only used for still arch renders. I just can't see this Arnold thingy blows all those out of the water, it's a bit late for this.

[kole]

Links:

That is problem with your statements, you are not familiar with it and do not know how it functions and what are his advantages over the ones you mentioned.
As TheGreatFezz said it will come time that you will have possibility to try it, and than we can talk again.

Done with Arnold:

Links:

Links:

[TheGreatFezz]

Also done with Arnold:

Links:

TGF

[sassimicah]

true alot of movies have applied themselves to the renderman standard but arnold has been used alot and it sort of seems to me you haven't read any of the link i gave above but thanks for your input.i do believe renderman will continue to set the standards but only because there are alot more egg heads and boffins working on it from pixar and ilm and the likes but i do think its unique approach to g.i rendering will carve out a place for it in the market .because in production i cant use mental ray its just too slow for any production rendering especially for resource intensive scenes like lets say devastator from transformers taking 72 hours a frame(on a big ass render farm .NOT one computer) and renderman is bloody fast that i can testify to ..now imagine using mental ray ...it would take forever ..yes MR has been used in movies but only for a shot here and a shot there never 'full on' like pixar or dreamworks...what arnold may represent is an alternative for our industry in terms of robust production proven rendering like in cloudy with a chance and the like ..i liked the shots that were coming out of there.apart from that there is a chance that it will be cheaper than pr man and this may or will be good news for smaller studios as renderman must be bought on a per 5 seat basis of 5k total (1k per seat) .further more its a fast bastard !

[yukon_28]

Links:

True, i am not familiar with it, as 99.9% of other industry people, because it's never released (even though it's promised to be released many years ago). SO when i see only texts that states how fast and great this product, backed up just by a few pics for years, i tend to doubt, to say at least. And even the fact that Sony adopted this tool for their rendering pipeline also don't proves that Arnold it's the next big thing in rendering.

[Dave]

now where did this arnold come from? out of nothing? its hard to believe that its gonna kick out renderman, and also known RayTracing renderers that are constantly improving. whats so good about this arnold thing?

[yukon_28]

Links:

Their webpage is empty and states "Coming Soon" for a long time (years!). There is no info on features of the renderer core itself, nor about plugins/connectors for 3d apps, how much it costs and why anyone should choose it, how it better then renderers we are using now. Nothing. Zero. So they really expect someone to pay for 5 licenses without getting any details and without proving that it's better?! If so, i do understand why noone cares about this arnold thingy and noone using it, if this is their market strategy...

[yukon_28]

Links:

So, you have it installed, right? Let's make some tests, if we're talking about raytracers, Arnold vs V-Ray. I am yet to see raytracer better and faster then V-Ray, let's compare it to your beloved Arnold renderer guys.

[esanti]

Arnold render is very old now

Links:

[TheGreatFezz]

Links:

Exactly! We made a similar investment. Agree with you 100% would never think to use MR again.

To all you other skeptics... fair enough, continue to be skeptical.

Plenty of studios are using Arnold at the moment, and if you are lucky enough to have the opportunity you would understand that those of us who ARE using it know what we are talking about.

One of these days you will be able to use it too and when that day comes prepare to eat your words.


I look forward to that day!


In the mean time, go on thinking the the world is FLAT.... LOL!

Peace.

TGF

[yukon_28]

Links:

Really? So please enlighten us, what those "Plenty of studios" names? Because i have not seen any traces of Arnold in places i have worked for, and little research i did in facebook, asking my fb mates many of whom are working for major studios about arnold, shows that it's anything but well known production renderer used in "Plenty of studios"...

Links:

Me to! And BTW I still look forward to Duke Nukem Forever! Cooming soon!

[yukon_28]

Links:

Path Tracing is not new at all. There is unbiased (CPU and GPU, even hybrid) path tracing renderers, there is path tracing mode in most of the other renderers, including V-Ray. It's slow, i am yet to see really fast path tracing. And BTW, cache-based GI is also flicker-free.

Links:

Sounds good, but it's a words, i'd prefer to see real tests with render times and quality clearly seen. So tell me when you have time, i'd be happy to compare it to V-Ray, and i am pretty sure V-Ray would perform faster and better. There is also finalRender, last version of it unbelievably fast for 3D moblur, and it's also capable of 3D moblur and DOF with micro tris displacement and full GI in low render times.

[yukon_28]

Links:

Well, productions of those films (at least 2012 and Alice in Wonderland) used like a million of different tools, apps and renderers, it's not like Arnold used to render 2012 or even a big part of it, it's probably used for some fairly small part of it. On 2012 finalRender also used a lot, i think more than Arnold.

[h3zk1ng]

<<<<< Arnold user.....Love it!

[yukon_28]

Links:

Cache based GI for moving animation is also possible and certainly achievable today. Path tracing is easier to render flicker-free GI, sure, but it's slower. I mean even for larger studios is not easy to use path tracing for longer sequences, let alone for small shops and freelancers with just a few render nodes. Plus there is not much space for speed/quality optimizations, much less than with cache-based GI methods.

[patar3d]

hahahah 3dsmax fan boy i presume....
3dsmax guys always fail to c the world beyond....i wonder why...

[yukon_28]

Links:

I fail to understand how it's connected to max. We're talking about render engines, and any serious render engine has a connector at least for a few 3d apps, you don't have to use specific 3d app to access renderer.

[patar3d]

i mean theres lots and lots of cool apps out there... that we just never seen or heard before...i mean tools like mari, mudbox, nuke, massive or even names like renderman these tools were once in house software ... and we never hear of them before...
i mean everything is possible that there is this apps that we never even hear before that might change the cg scene...everything is possible so no need to be so defensive or even mad

[patar3d]

im just figuring things out coz u mentioned vray and final render...

[yukon_28]

Links:

To make me (or anyone for that matter, freelance or studio, big or small) to even consider the possibility of investing in it, they should jump very high to prove that their product is better than those we're using. If their marketing strategy is "cooming soon" page for 5 years, i highly doubt they'd become rich from this arnold thingy ever

[yukon_28]

Links:

Both of which is available for maya, c4d and xsi (in beta), BESIDES MAX...

[patar3d]

yet in maya i dont c any advantages that they have over mr
i think mr are far more complete and faster and better if u know how to use it...

[patar3d]

and i think that most ppl that knows mr well... will agree to this...

[patar3d]

but mr compared to prman... i can c lots of area where prman can easily win...due to its reyes nature...so if someone says that there r things thats faster than mr but cheaper than prman i'll welcome them with open arm...

[patar3d]

Links:

yap thats what im talking about...
btw thx for sharing the links... nice render!!!

[patar3d]

sorry let me rephrase that....i was wrong its not nice render.... its EXCELENT RENDER!!!!!

[yukon_28]

Links:

Hm, how is that it have no advantages over mr in maya but does have in max? Considering that max and maya both have same version of mr. Anyways, fR have many advantages over mr, and it's faster in some cases. Not saying that it's always faster or better though, mr is better in many situations.

slyleb, to make studio consider trying betta/demo, they should show something, at least to make the damn website and feature list... Teh noise i see in the forums once or twice in a year, like "wow, it's a best renderer in the world, better than anything, but there is no website, no demo, no features list, so you have to take our word for this" does not make me want to bother asking demo, sorry.

[patar3d]

maybe bad implementation of mr in max... i dont know... im always c max like an apps full of patches .... plugins for this and plugins for that... this doesnt work with that ... and this only works for this...and if u use sumthing the wrong way kaboom max crashes

[patar3d]

and most of the time when i talk to ppl using max they dont really know their tools. like they have mr fo so long but they never learn how to realy use it... writing shader.. tweaking their bsp ,etc...

[patar3d]

im sure if u ask terms like micropolygon, pixel sampling, filtering, reyes what r they and how they work 9 of 10 ppl will know nothing about it...

[yukon_28]

Links:

LOL, now that's funny. Because Master Zap from mental images, developer of fast sss, Arch&design shaders and other mr stuff, who is probably on of the biggest mr pro's says that mr implementation in max is best, better than in maya, and this is the reason why he is teaches his mr course at fxphd using max. If you don't know how to properly use application, it's does not mean that application is bad.

Links:

Well, it's the same feeling as if you where talking about maxwell or other unbiased pathtracer. It's fast to setup, shaders are straight forward and settings are easy to learn and use. But render times very slow and optimization options are missing.

Links:

Links:

It has nothing to do with max or any other app. Yes, majority of users does not getting very technical, great renderers like V-Ray lets you to get good result fast without being a shading/rendering TD, and it is a good thing. I don't think that every artist should be able to write code, should know math behind shading and rendering equations and to know how renderer works under the hood. Anyways, how it relates to arnold discussion?

[yukon_28]

Links:

Sounds good. I'd like to play with it when i get the chance, for now i'm back to vray/mr/3delight

[yukon_28]

slyleb, it's integrated in xsi only, or there also maya/max plugins exist/in development? What shader language it understands, and how you make arnold shaders, via xsi nodes, write code or there is some tool for visual shader creation/editing, like a Slim?

[Z-marte]

Year 1999 ...
Arnold render used to render models built in max 3.1
Does anyone remember?
The feeling is the same now that the Lagoa has recently triggered

[yukon_28]

Links:

Very good work, thanks for the heads up! Cheers!

[johan]

omgomg arnold gimme plox nao

[TheGreatFezz]

Links:

LOL!!! You are out of your mind, he..he... I like my job, sorry mate, I would NEVER post it here. If you want it, sign up for the beta.

That way it's your ass on the line, not mine.

BTW... I do actually have it matey. The current version is 1.4.0 as other Arnold users will confirm.

/end

TGF

[gman]

Arnold is on the way , and is going rock the CG world..

[Dave]

technical talking gives me aids