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Old 07-04-2012   #1
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Default I think I Will Stay With Carrara-Daz Studio-Poser For The Foreseeable Future...

This is Verbatim from Daz 3D's Carrara forum, and it it makes some of you foam in your mouths, well hat is just too bad, if you don't mind my saying so.


"I’ll be the first person that will say to use the tool best suited for the job. The only reason I responded to your post is that you used “saving money” and “Maya” in the same thought process without a negative in there somewhere.

As for professionalism. Don’t confuse “expensive” with “stable.” Maya crashes… a lot. And I’m not on cheap or under-powered equipment — try Microway Servers, 2U rack mounted, multi-processor multi-core, error-correcting RAM, Autodesk Listed and Approved Graphics Adapters. Autodesk presumes that you have an in-house IT department to “resolve” their issues, or that you are paying them maintenance monthly to receive bug fixes. Not paying maintenance? Don’t bother calling support unless you have a Credit Card with a large open balance available. Even with maintenance, you still get a lot of: “Hmmm. Never heard of that one before. Have you tried rebooting your machine? OK. Well then, go into Control Panel. Oh, you’re using our Linux/Mac version? Please hold while I find someone who can help you. (queue on-hold music) Thank you for calling Autodesk, your satisfaction is our most important—click. dial tone.”

Par for the industry. Happens with NewTek, Maxon, you name it. For the price, the DAZ stuff is a steal (EDIT: Even at the original full price), and support is pretty darned good—even without a maintenance agreement."

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/2177/P45
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Old 07-04-2012   #2
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If you love it so much, why don't you marry it?
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Old 07-04-2012   #3
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HA HA... I like your sense of humor.

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Old 07-04-2012   #4
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Hey, you know what...both Daz and Poser are excellent products.
Daz after all does have a really good render engine...3delight.
And I would take either of them over all the, "character makers" out there, Quidam...etc.
AND there are some really good model suppliers as well...Stonemason for example.
His environments are top grade...urban, the Asian village thing as well as the Mediterranean Streets one.
For the bucks Carrara and Hexagon are very decent modelers as well.

That said...my complaint isn't about the basic tools it's the fucking sleazy crap that floods sites that allow Daz & Poser content.
Much of it borders on pedophilia along with flat out misogynistic degradation style sick-ass pseudo-porn.
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Old 07-04-2012   #5
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We all get it...
You love Daz/Carrara/Poser...
Could you just stop make useless posts about it?
It incites flaming and you know it.
Stop antagonizing the community.
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Old 07-04-2012   #6
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OK! Now we're getting somewhere.

I truly appreciate that you recognize that Daz Studio has a top-notch renderer. Carrara's renderer ain't all that bad either. It's a notch below C4D's native renderer, but it's quite slow compared to C4D's. I wish Daz could do something about it.

For human character animation (not for blobs or fantoms), first try Motion Builder, which is the scariest piece of software I have personally seen, then run to Poser to design very realistic walk cycles in a matter of minutes, or use Daz Studio's Animate plugin to create some very realistic animations with tools such as blending, layering or spline editing, then export the whole thing into Carrara as clips (which hide the internal intricacies of keyframes), and arrange your clips into multiple tracks and voila: you get yourself a very realistsic human character animation in a matter of hours, not weeks or months like with that truly scary Motion Builder.

Not to forget the thousands of free mocap bvh files that you can find for free all over the net.

I agree with you though that the porn (or near-porn) crap that is done with Daz/Poser contents tarnishes the image of great and very well-designed models.
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Old 07-04-2012   #7
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yet another pointless/boring thread.
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Old 07-04-2012   #8
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A pro, going by his real name, relates his own hands-on experience with Maya's frequent crashes and Autodesk's stinking support and you call it pointless reading?

Will you buy a $50,000.- car, even if an expert advises you not too, because he knows from experience that this is not a good car?

What this guy, whose name is Kendall Sears, is saying is that with Maya you need your own in-house IT department to keep the damn thing running. And I have no reason to doubt that he is right.

He also says that Maya crashes frequently, which I have no reason to doubt either.

He is a duly licensed user of Autodesk's products and he uses top-of-the-line equipment.

All you guys are saying is that "We use Maya, therefore Maya is the best". That is what I call a very flawed way of looking at things.
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Old 07-04-2012   #9
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the trouble with people like youself is you think its all about the software; its not. I'm bored of fanboys like you trying to "win" an utterly useless arguement and starting endless threads full of dullard posts like yours. If you need to trawl other forums to illustrate your futile point of view then i suggest you start asking questions like.

"Do I have to much time on my hands?"

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Old 07-04-2012   #10
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I LOVE YOU TARZAN.....DO YOU HAVE CrossDresser 4 All Licenses AND PZ2 EXPORTER FOR CARRARA.
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Old 07-04-2012   #11
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HA HA... You both very funny.

Too bad there isn't a volinist here to play along with your tunes. It would surely make you more interesting to listen to.



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Old 07-04-2012   #12
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please speak english.
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Old 07-04-2012   #13
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---------- Post added at 02:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------
Heh, if you're so sick of Maxon and or Autodesk, why don't you run off to the DAZ3D community? Try Blender if you want a change. Open source; the devs seem to actually care about it. Think it sucks? Fix it!

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You know what? Fuck you. "Misogynistic degradation", "pseudo-porn". As if degradation of a male is not possible.
And it happens, more often than you think.
Besides, some people are just into some particular kink. Let them.
Kinda the same for the pedophilia, it's not the same as a real child and unless you're mentally challenged you see the difference.

Edit: wow, how the hell did that happen!? Hopefully fixed now...

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Old 07-04-2012   #14
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Why the nasty...did I hit a perv...er I mean nerve?

If you like that stuff that's fine...whack away Sparky!

Cheers,
_C
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Old 07-04-2012   #15
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Funny that I feel the need to defend myself over the internet, but you did not in fact hit a perv, I'm not into it.
A nerve did get hit though, simply by you saying the simple word "misogynistic". Am I now a chauvinist pig? Maybe...
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Old 07-05-2012   #16
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No...

So let me explain bertfuck...sorry, I'm still a little pissed about the "fuck you", cause I think it was out of line and a little extreme.
Not agreeing with what I said is one thing and you could have said something...but starting it off with "fuck you"?
So that's telling don't you think? Kind of like the guy at the card game that says, "Who farted!?"...odds are it was him.
A perv would get defensive about stuff I said...makes sense...or is it you like taking it up the...?
That's o.k....I got nothing against gays...I'm fine with you guys.
Is that the male degradation you mentioned...have something to do with that?
Well, I can see your point then.

Getting back to my complaint about Daz/Poser sites and that touchy word that seems to excite you so much...misogynistic.
Yes, male degradation does happen I am sure of that...but you seem to know more about that than me...
My point is, in fact I have not seen that aspect of human interaction depicted on Daz/Poser sites.
Then again I don't visit or know of any gay Daz/Poser character web sites...though I am sure they do exist.
So, it's my experience that what I have seen...that word again...was misogynistic...yeah, depictions of degradation to women.
And I take exception to that.

But to soothe your ruffled butch feathers I will now add that I think depictions of male degradation also suck...oops...I mean are also bad.

Cheers,
_C

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Old 07-05-2012   #17
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These are 3 shots out of my upcoming blockbuster creation all done in Poser, Daz Studio and Carrara.

Victoria walks seductively down the stairs, points the gun at you the viewer and says: 'Listen Buster!... I am real girl... And this... Is a real gun!... Don't make me trash ya!...'

Now how mysoginistic is that?

Staright out of Carrara render. No post-retouch.

http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/...n_007/Pic1.jpg

http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/...n_007/Pic2.jpg

http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/...n_007/Pic3.jpg

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[/URL]
Link(s):
 
[/URL]
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[/URL]
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Old 07-05-2012   #18
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@ Cutter, you are nice and smart man, why discuss wit this... thing.
prezadent gave a good suggestion .... So when is the wedding ? XD
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Old 07-05-2012   #19
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You mean marry the girl in the screenshots? This isn't the kind of girl you marry.

This is the kind of girl you take on a treasure hunt in the depth of the South-American jungles, before taking her to Mars to fight the bad guys whotake over people's minds and erase their memories, and then you fly together to planet Aldoran (through a space-time wormhole) where you capture Jabba-the-Hutt who is hiding in his bunker 10,000 feet below the surface with 1 billion ton of ultra-nuclear explosives and who is threatening to blow-up the entire galaxy if his ransom demands aren't met.

The last sequence of the movie? Well, I'll leave it to your imagination.
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Old 07-05-2012   #20
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Old 07-05-2012   #21
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In my best Sly Stallone impression from Rambo..."he drew first blood."

All in fun now...I got no problem radoman.

Cheers,
_C

---------- Post added at 10:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 PM ----------

prezadent...That is out right creepy!! LOL!

Two Thumbs UP!!

Cheers,
_C
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Old 07-05-2012   #22
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a great example of how to do bad CG. a load of bad textures poor understanding of colour and lighting. don't get me started on the modelling.

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Old 07-05-2012   #23
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I'm sure I don't want you to get started on anything.
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Old 07-05-2012   #24
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Thumbs up Calling all everyone to join in in a graphic novel project !

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OK nice works ...

We are Actually needing Poser & all kinds of 3D & 2D Willing to help people for a graphic Novel project Is starting here ...


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The Work is for free within the developing time / and there will be percentages of the Project Sales / If there is any incoming ...
The project will deliver participation points for each participant that will represent %Percentages on 75% of all project sales ...

The more yu participate into the Graphic Novel Episodes / the more points you have ... More percentages of all incoming you will gain.

Of course only after published We can deliver the fair Percentages for every one.

On the rest you can trust me and Us as realiable partners.
( We would not Affort Scam People Anyway / as we are a Online Communitarian Artist Initiative / that Develops itself with Everyone online Aid )


We will Do Sales of the Novel online tru lulu.com as well indiegogo.com ...
And with that Try to reach Interested Offline publishers ... As radicalpublishing.com and soleilprod.com were after done we will be doing our Communitary production Episodes submissions ..

All The Art Must Sound Original and with Some quality at the end / but Everyone Interested can participate and help / And get some Production points And therefore Earn from it Some Product percentages.

Everyone can participate with their own characters & histories & scenes into this Project
As everyone Will be considered also a coAuthor .

The series are fantasy & scify like .

And you can Also use every kind of 3D software you like with us to build it ...

If you Are interested please

Say something at CGSTUDENTS.deviantart.com Blog Here :


http://cgstudents.deviantart.com/blog/

Or contact-me by private note .

Thanks so much !

Aaron Etsuky
3DEXILE STUDIOS
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Old 07-05-2012   #25
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I apologize, the "fuck you" was indeed not needed. I really don´t know why I got so pumped up by the word "misogynistic", as I normally try to keep things I've read out of most discussion, but it happened; nothing can be done about it now.

I don't think we should put more words into it than needed, to save some bandwidth and stuff and I honestly see I'm at fault here, so please, let's just move on here, okay?
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Old 07-05-2012   #26
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I consider this thread to have been the only intelligent thread in these forums in a very long time.

This is also, to my best knowledge, the only thread in a very long time where 2 forum members show a little of their personal work in a constructive manner.

This is also, to my best knowledge, the only thread in a very long time, which could have resulted in 2 forum members working on a project together as a team.

Yet a mod finds it useless and trashes it while nothing in this thread is offensive, deragoratory or flaming except an uncalled-for insult for which the person responsible for it apologized promptly.

There is no excuse for the mod's lack of judgment in trashing this thread.
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Old 07-05-2012   #27
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this thread has found its rightful home.
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Old 07-05-2012   #28
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berthenk...I apologize for anything I wrote that may have offended you...all is well...peace.

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Old 07-05-2012   #29
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Rodney King is smiling down upon us.
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Old 07-05-2012   #30
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we're far away from title.
some1 bought an adsk product, then trying to report a bug/an issue he discovered adsk were all drunk singing limb bizkit keep rollin' rollin' rollin' and that's why didnt hear what he was saying 'em by phone. I knew it.

Well, after got a good lesson or if you just read Easyway Stop Using 3dsmax and now yuo're free, what are there alternatives exist? I mean with the same package of powerful tools for... just anything? I see Modo, Houdini, but how it could be a Poser/DAZ? I don't remember any of both has enough abilities for making FX, uvw map and enough other tools for simple movie production. Thing have changed or i just missed something again. These are just my attempts to be invovled in one big brawl what i should not be involved in.

This thread is trashed anyway. We need a smoking room.
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Old 07-05-2012   #31
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An opium den is preferred.
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Old 07-05-2012   #32
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yeah, there we could talk any shit without fearing get banned becuz of been considered as lost narcomaniacs.
if the trash-can are still actual threads, i did a great offtop right now

damn, what i'm talking about! We need a place where can ask just any stupid thing. Here're thousand men, where did i make a mistake?
without fearing get banned or without fearing to get banned, which is correct? Yes, i'm one of sorry for my english gang.

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Old 07-06-2012   #33
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I think the CGP rules of ethic is not working right now, Admin please boot your system!!
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Old 07-06-2012   #34
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There is nothing in this thread that's offensive, rude or unprofessional.

I believe that 99% of the people in these forums don't have the financial abilities - nor the technical skills - to buy and use 3DS Max or Maya or XSI.

The only reason that 99% of the people in these forums use such expensive softwares - and defend them with teeth and claws - is that they act as a bunch of lowly thieves using pirated softwares that they have not earned.

I also believe that 99% of the people in these forums would actually be using Carrara, Poser or Daz Studio if they had to pay for the softwares they use.

For the record, my copy of Carrara is legit, so is my copy of Poser, Daz Studio, Hexagon, Bryce, IClone, 3DXChange, Sony Vegas, as well as every piece of software that I actually use.

But obviously the opinion of a bunch of unskilled thieves who have not earned their lunch is worth more than the opinion of professionals like myself or Kendall Sears who still have some honor left in the depth of their minds.
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Old 07-06-2012   #35
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yeah you keep telling yourself that.
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Old 07-06-2012   #36
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Am I to believe that these characters are original creations?
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Old 07-06-2012   #37
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yet another pointless/boring thread.
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Old 07-06-2012   #38
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The whole scene was created in Carrara in less than 2 and 1/2 hours. This includes 1) The tweaking of skin textures so they look natural because Poser textures don't carry over properly into Carrara and 2) The fitting of the clothes so there are no poke-throughs during animation.

Each frame takes 25 seconds to render with Carrara's highest render settings (Although there is still room for improvements in the lighting area).

It may not be original nor Academy Award winning material, but when it comes to efficiency, highest benefit vs. cost ratio and quickest project delivery time you can't get any better than that.

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I am eagerly waiting for some of your to-the-point and interesting threads.
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Old 07-06-2012   #39
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but the work is crap....that is NOT produced by someone with a professional artistic background.
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Old 07-06-2012   #40
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This thread like usual is comedy. Dude I get that you love Poser/Daz/Carrara/Whatever but you just set all of your arguments back to 1997 with those images. Everything is shiny and no, the skin does not look natural.
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Old 07-06-2012   #41
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First you show me some of your own stunning mind-blowing creations then we'll talk. Alright? Dude?

I still maintain than 95% of you hot-shots can't use not even 1/10 of 3DS Max's features, nor do you have adequate equipment to do so. The only reason you use (and defend) 3DS Max or alike is that you have pirated it for free.

If you had to pay honorably for the software you use, you would be using Carrara llike I am.

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I bet you don't have not even 1 creation worth showing, and you are here bragging about who is or who isn't a professional artist. First you show me something worthwhile and 'original' then we'll see who's the man.
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Old 07-06-2012   #42
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You're right, but then again I haven't touched Max since V4 when it was still Discreet. XSI, Zbrush, and Silo user here and I actually do have legit licenses to them. As far as the "honorably" thing goes, you're on a pirating forum mate. Use and/or learn something that'll make your work look better because the Carrara thing isn't working that well. Maybe there are things you can actually do in it that I haven't seen. I'll contemplate throwing something up here into the fire, but then that means I can't show it anywhere else.
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Old 07-06-2012   #43
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well lets clear one thing up no way am I showing my work on this site. It puts food on my table and i don't intend to risk losing clients just to put you in your place. I spent 4 years doing my foundation & BA in fine art and 1 year doing my MA in computer animation. I know what i'm talking about. I told you earlier that people like yourself think its all about the software. you think if you learn which buttons to press on your chossen app that somehow your going have weta beating your door down to work on there next project. The thing you hobbists all forget is you still have to learn the artistic skills like lighting, modelling, composition and colour. It stands out so clearly that you have no idea about any of those things.


to a pro the software is just a tool to get the job done its no more than a glorifed pencil. No one gives a toss which app you use. so you keep making an arse of yourself on your lil crusade. but that time would be better spent trying to learn something rather than trying to teach people that have been doing this for years.
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Old 07-06-2012   #44
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I think legg has put his er, finger on it . . . or should that be his leg? The software is not the point. Some is better than others, but it's the artist that counts.

I've worked 15+ years in games dev as a senior artist, no way am I showing any of my work here When I saw those images I too was thinking 1997, for some reason. Maybe that was just a vintage year for bad character art. We sometimes get stuff like that sent through with CV's - it gets passed around the office, with a lot of guffawing.

If this is the best that poser can do, I'd think about moving on.

btw I have not pirated Max. I have to use it every day, more's the pity. In my opinion it is a shody peice of work, but it gets the job done, to a professional standard, if you know how to use and abuse it.

Last edited by Bobba_the_Hut; 07-06-2012 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 07-06-2012   #45
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Yeah yeah yeah... Some lame excuses to hide the fact that you are a mediocre 'artist'. If you were a talented artist you could create masterpieces with even less than Carrara. The fact is that you are using some stolen tools that you don't know how to use and you hide your mediocrity behind the fear of your identity being revealed. If it scares you so much why do you come here in the first place?

As I mentioned above, I created that scene in less than 2 1/2 hour as a proof-of-concept, not as a masterpiece. With some additional tweaking it can get very close to what's produced by C4D. I know because I have already compared the outputs from Carrara to outputs from C4D and there is little difference between the two, that is why I chose to go with Carrara for this project.

All the tools that I am using are legit and, should I use C4D for an upcoming project, I will buy a fully legit copy of it too. That makes me a lot more of a Pro than you.

Please don't answer this one and see you around.
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Old 07-06-2012   #46
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So just because you spent a lot of time at school getting some degree that doesn't mean anything, you know what you're talking about?
Why can't these so-called "hobbyists" know what they're talking about? Those artistic skills are attained by practice, practice and practice. If you think you're better off at school, so be it.
Some people prefer learning from home.
And even then, the way you do it doesn't matter, the results do. With or without your degree, foundation, etc.
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Old 07-06-2012   #47
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@ tarzan: so you've posted commercial work you've undertaken on a CG pirate software site. how professional.

@berthenk : there is nothing wrong with learning period so stop getting your panties in a twist. to many people think its all about learning software and forget about the real skills. the software is just a tool it will do nothing without instruction from the artist and if you don't learn that skill set then your work will never improve.

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Old 07-06-2012   #48
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I don't recall getting my panties in a twist about something being wrong with learning because I said nothing of the sort.
Though I do mostly agree with you.
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Old 07-06-2012   #49
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I reaaly prefer The classic art artrenewal.org in Digital Paint Work look Than the 3D

The 3D got always "that" look ...

But true is There are tecnikes that avoid "that" 3D look ...

For example:

1) Draw with a tablet in photoshop the wholle scene ... | 1Hour Work
1.1) Try to setup the scene in 3D software based in the draw ... | 3 to 6 Hours Work
1.1.0) Setup foreground setup background and landscape vue terragen max etc | 3hours work
1.1) After all setuped / export to zbrush / hiper detail And paint all the whoole scene | 6 to 9 Hours Work
1.2) bring in from zbrush to your 3D sofware ... | 1 Hour Work
1.1.1) Setup lightning shaders - render ... in whatever render of your choise ... | 3 Hours Work
/ Carrara is cool because of the multipasses ..
1.1.1) My choise would be in Thea Render / or Maxwell ...
Or vray in cinema4D or max at least ... ( ok yu can use blender cicles or carrara or modo ? ) Whatever does the job ...
1.1.1.1) bring the 3D render into photoshop or painter / Take its color and make it Grayscale ..
1.1.1.2) Overlay the Grayscale With the first sketch ... Take it down on "Chiaro escuro"
1.1.1.2.1) Painting and Modeling the grayscales of all scene to a better degree ... | 3Hours Work
1.1.1.2.1.1) bring in teh colors of the render and overlay and improve with your own painting.. | 1Hour Work
1.1.1.2.1.2) bring in photos and matte paint ... Blend all well | 2Hour Work
1.1.2) Do some fx .. Overlay ... | 0.5 Hour Work
1.2) Do some lightning And color ajustments . | 0.5 Hour Work ..

TOTAL TIME : 25 hours Work For just 1 image ^^
Dividing by 5 hours everyday ~One can do that "aka" a 1 Masterpieçe Every 5 days ..

And there you go ...
SOmething better and possible more artistic than raw 3D Renders ...
But that takes a hell lot of work ...

No there is no Shorter way in hours and steps to start make a master pieçe ..

Well ... Some people just :

1) pick on some models of someone serach for it install it .. | 0.5 Hour Work
2) slap in a 3d software like dazstudio ... | 0.5 Hour Work
3) Make some Junctions of Characters and cloths | 0.5 Hour Work
4) pick on some Premade backgrounds props or images | 0.5 Hour Work
5) do the render ! | 0.5 Hour Work

Total time : 2 Hours 30 minuts ...

Now the result will be quite a litle bit diferent from the one that took 25 hours to be made ? ...

Yes i'm prety sure ... And yeah one can do that degree of Art tecniques with lumion or Udk Free software as renderer if needed ...
If taken in artistically seriously with all those 25 hours to all those steps it will be always better ..

SO iTS NOT A MATTER OF THE SOFTWARE ONE USE ...

ITS ABOUT WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR OWN TIME .


And what hard to work techniques do you use or not to make it "Artistic" ....
..as nothing artistically is done lightly or with short amount of time ..
Sory !

Thats how i think seriously of it ...

NO PAIN NO GAIN ! And thats its ...
SOftware got nothing to do with it .
...

Your mind Degree In Efforts And endurance / knoledge / and inspirated vision ... does it ^^


CHEERIOS!


Aaron Etsuky
3DEXILE STUDIO
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Old 07-06-2012   #50
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You are either a user or a creator. If you are making and selling Poser models, more power to you. If you are doing recolors and posing dolls, well, just don't tell anyone.
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