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Reload this Page 2014 - The End of Softimage
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:49:42 PM   #201
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Old 03-12-2014, 05:16:30 PM   #202
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I really hope users all over tell the scumbag Autodesk how they feel about the end of the best 3D tool they have.
When I knew about the XSI being sold to Autodesk I was, in fact all my friends and co-workers at the time were afraid of this.
They tried for year before to "copy" some of the features that only Softimage-XSI still is the only one to have and never could, then they finally could put their dirty little hands on it. Their development was noticeable after that, but, not enough and XSI users never migrated to other tools as they expected, then they just decided "we are practically the only ones on the market, fuck the users".
I can say that I do not intend to abandon this amazing tool and I'll keep running it as far as it goes.
If really big studios oppose to this they certainly will back off this horrible decision, but this will not happen. They will "lobby" the owners to change, and fuck the slaves on the working floor, right? Hope not!
Without XSI 3D will be a sad place, Max and Maya don't just get even close to XSI reliability and performance.
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Old 03-12-2014, 06:08:33 PM   #203
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Oh my god, if XSI was soooo amazing what happen to all the support. Lets face it. Even swiping it for FREE, you guys are choosing Maya, Cinema4D, Modo, and Max over XSI. People demand tools and shy away from others for a reason.
I think you guys just want something to bit** about, honestly.
Be honest with yourselves. It was wise to drop XSI, and MAX is next.
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Old 03-12-2014, 06:25:59 PM   #204
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Meanwhile in ADīs offices

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Old 03-12-2014, 06:33:09 PM   #205
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XSI had some good parts, some people liked that.
I just saw what ICE basically is, it's fucking amazing, I can imagine people using XSI just for ICE.
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Old 03-12-2014, 06:58:46 PM   #206
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A turd is nutritious to grass...
You can find good in anything if you look hard enough.

Just joking.
But really, it's hardly anyone looking to train noobs on XSI. The future in software lies in the noobs hands, and all the universities and anyone teaching anything CG, are choosing MAYA.
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Old 03-12-2014, 10:36:35 PM   #207
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There is another thing to be consider.

Since everyone thinks like "Yeah, Autodesk bought Softimage and then killed it" and "They bought it just to remove competition" and so on...
Maybe if Autodesk didn't bought in 2008 - AVID would just shut it down right there and then.
So basically AD kept it alive for another 6-7 years while it could have been dead and forgotten long time ago.

Probably not quite so but who knows? Just something to think about.
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:22:33 PM   #208
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This thread is about Softimage, not render engines.
Please get back on topic.

14 offtopic posts removed
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Old 03-13-2014, 12:04:24 AM   #209
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XSI died because of all the sheep that followed the crowd

If Max/Maya/XSI did not exist, then all 3 were released at the same time, XSI would be by far the most popular
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Old 03-13-2014, 12:35:35 AM   #210
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Ice came too late,before Ice Xsi was just another 3d app with a nice UI.
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Old 03-13-2014, 05:56:02 AM   #211
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Oh my god, what a joke. Bwahahahahaha ! Again dont pretend that you know how others are thinking. You really have no fuc***g clue. Just shut up, no one knows that you dont know.

---------- Post added at 11:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 PM ----------

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In a way, that's true. It came a little late. Major studio has based their tools and infrastructure in maya already. And again, not enough user, or official paid user.

---------- Post added at 11:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 PM ----------

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Yes, as long as it still works why not. But at one point it will get obsolete. So i still think it is wise to start look for alternative as your transition period as your backup. Of course you know to stay away from AD ! I still see majority is seriously considering Houdini.
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Old 03-13-2014, 06:12:31 AM   #212
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Does anyone still remember Batch Serve, XSI Viewer, and Behavior? All of which were great Softimage applications that AD never even brought to the table. I wonder if those apps could still be relevant in todays arena?

It's like I'm mourning the death of a salesman.
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Old 03-13-2014, 06:45:49 AM   #213
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So, will AD leave ICE and Facerobot dies along XSI?
Can it even be integrated with Max or Maya?
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Old 03-13-2014, 07:57:02 PM   #214
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I assumed AD would just strip out most the xsi GUI and leave it as a fancy ICE plugin for 3dsmax/maya.
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Old 03-14-2014, 11:38:42 AM   #215
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Autodesk had to adapt to the new reality, if isnt too late for that. Because there is $300 software that want a piece of the cake, and they got it: small studios buying options. And there is a loooot of small studios now, and all together they represent a big slice.

Notice what AD did to Smoke. And someone told me that Flame will follow the same path. Its a matter of time.
The industry is no longer hyper localized, everyone want to get their hands on it.

It will be cheaper for AD to get rid of XSI and stop development. Even with the risk of loosing some ppl for modo, most of the XSI ppl will change to max or maya, it will be worth. Its all about money.

---------- Post added at 10:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 AM ----------

And btw, ICE is cool and we want it inside max, but what about SyFlex? Gimme, gimme!!
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Old 03-14-2014, 11:42:34 AM   #216
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But Softimages biggest competitor isnīt the $300 software, itīs previous versions of Softimage. Thereīs no need to buy the new version all the time.
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Old 03-14-2014, 12:29:41 PM   #217
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Posts like these speak volumes about the current Max/Maya users' tech awareness. It's no surprise that they chose Max/Maya instead of Softimage. It's an attesting monument of ignorance and herd mentality - they all went with Max/Maya because they heard they're great and Pixar/whatever studio use it.
I for one won't go for Max or Maya as this guy obviously thinks. There's nothing there for me, it would be a downgrade.
An upgrade or at least a sidegrade would be Houdini. Max? Buhahahahahaha!
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Old 03-14-2014, 05:35:01 PM   #218
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softimage will be missed
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Old 03-14-2014, 07:38:37 PM   #219
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Hardcore Softimage user will not side to Max nor Maya. It's not an opinion.
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Old 03-14-2014, 09:30:10 PM   #220
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I'm creative director in a average business group, I do tech direction in the creative department. Our core business is TV and cinema. I was changing some 3D software in our pipeline, thinking about buying 3 XSI seats. I wont right now.
I know Houdini and I dont think that software can do your work. So, we are very open to software because we use them as tools. We use max for precision, pflow and maya for char animation. We have modo to do some special modeling and 3D coat aside mudbox because we like them. All of them can do your work if you know how to handle them and if you know what to do.
Your post only shows your anger about this issue. I can understand your frustration, but dont be an ass. You should try other things first. Experience will tell you why not to be narrow.

EDIT: and if you think that going from XSI to Houdini is a sidegrade, you will have a surprise.

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Old 03-14-2014, 09:54:06 PM   #221
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After trying Houdini it appears to be the option for masochists; it looks really powerful but it makes a lot of stuff very hard.
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:04:05 PM   #222
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True. It isnt. What I meant to say is that the CG software market is getting an overturn. Ultra expensive systems like Flame have their days counted, to avoid extinction they will have to adapt asap to this new reality. Look at Mary and Substance Painter, not the same think, I know, but not the same price also. So maybe in some projects $100 will do the trick.

And btw, I remember that about 12 years ago, AD said that they "could", one day, perhaps, merge max and maya and do a single mega 3D software. If I remember this right, the rumor was about getting the cool stuff from maya and put it inside max, and maya would be only to fluid simulation for the automotive and aerospace industry. Anyone remember this? Well it was all fake or only to see how ppl react. The true is that both software still industry standard and very alive. I even remember that a lot of ppl raged about it in forums and said that they wouldnt change for max even if it was for free. But that was 10 years ago _(or more), nowadays most artists can work perfectly with both and even with more software, because software is more user friendly and made for artists, not for geeks.
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:04:09 PM   #223
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Lol. Indeed.
It is really powerful, but C4D with some plugins can do everything Houdini can.

And actually... Using separate software for the great shit Houdini has is mostly better than what Houdini throws.

It's like buying bread from the bakery or the supermarket.
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:18:47 PM   #224
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So basically you're saying, because he doesn't agree with you, he must lack tech awareness and have a heard mentality? Riiiight!

It's the other way around, isn't it. Instead of being a sheep and blindly accepting what you say, he has formed his own opinion about the subject and drawn his own conclusions.
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:47:26 PM   #225
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yes, that is the trend these days, instead of using one unified app that does things right like Houdini, let's all learn some parts of 3-4 apps so we can combine them together and suffer from poor file conversions, slow exports, buggy imports, having to write your own pipeline tools in python so you can do whatever Houdini does but in SM style

for sure you're a professional!!!
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:53:53 PM   #226
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I'm not a professional, I rarely do any CG related stuff, let alone for money.
(yes, I got your sarcasm...)

But professionals do use Realflow, TurbulenceFD etc. more than Houdini.
Since Houdini's results are a B+, and other software deliver A+.
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Old 03-14-2014, 11:49:53 PM   #227
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i understand now, you've heard all that from professionals!!! that's great!
especially the A/B comparison. absolutely spot on!
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Old 03-14-2014, 11:53:08 PM   #228
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Or you could just go with the real deal and learn Houdini.
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Old 03-15-2014, 12:02:21 AM   #229
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Ok Houdini has more advanced and better fluid simulations than Realflow and Naiad.
Yeah.
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Old 03-15-2014, 12:09:14 AM   #230
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Yes, uber powerfull. But you need a team of 2 to make it happen; the artist and the geek
Pflow #boxes from orbaz is pretty amazing and maybe, only maybe, more powerfull with a team of 2.

The thing is that houdini can handle all those particles and fluid systems, but you REALLY need to have a master on python and programming to get the good results. But ofc, nothing comes for free, and you REALLY can do almost all things that you can imagine.

Dont forget thinking particles and phoenix fd. Easy to use, good delivery.
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Old 03-15-2014, 12:12:37 AM   #231
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those are your words, not mine!
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Old 03-15-2014, 12:30:27 AM   #232
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Then Houdini is a B-quality solution.
But you seem to find that funny or something...
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Old 03-15-2014, 12:30:40 AM   #233
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I dont have any experience with Naiad, it looked promissory when i've looked for a fluid simulator. Our choice back then was to use realflow because its accurate, realistic (if tweaked) and most of all its is fast! Houdini it's a snail. It takes forever to get a average result. No doubt about accuracy, but only if you have time for it (or a big renderfarm).
I could love it, but I dont have the time.
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Old 03-15-2014, 12:47:02 AM   #234
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What I said was sarcastic eh :P
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Old 03-15-2014, 01:04:01 AM   #235
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How can you choose a sim engine if you havent tested all?i mean realflow its the 3dsmax of the fluid sims now.
its crappy,sure the sph solver its fine for small things,but hybrido and reaflow itself its old tech.

Naiad promising??? lol its the best even dead,Realflow development its slow as hell.

I dont even talk about Houdini,clearly you dont know what you are talking
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Old 03-15-2014, 01:28:04 AM   #236
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Your avatar its very clear.
I'm only discussing here how we feel about some software. I'm not saying RF is the best there is. When we needed a fluid simulator, our best option was RF. Because we knew it, and we had sure about getting what we need from it. Naiad was very unpopular back then.
And I dont know how clear it can be for you to guess what I know, but we can discuss how houdini is so good and why. Facts? We all have them. Experience, only some of us have it.

btw, once again I could love houdini, but I dont have time for it.
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Old 03-15-2014, 01:55:11 AM   #237
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Fuck this shit, im sticking with Lightwave. Ive never had problems with that program.
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Old 03-15-2014, 02:21:39 AM   #238
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Well dude maybe tvc arent the top of the mountain on simulations,the fact you compare rf with houdini talks about your experience.

But i understant Houdini its not for everyone,its hard to learn but you can otuput data from any node at any time,that alone its not better than RF?advect particles with fluids?advect cloth with fluids?shaders?

You can see for yourself lots of tutorials online.
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In fact the only real competitor to Naiad/bifrost now its Houdini

And my avatar comes from Monkey Island but i understant too many kids here.
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Old 03-15-2014, 02:24:17 AM   #239
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That was why I said your avatar said it all, if you remember the char

bullshit after bullshit

dont get me wrong, just messing around. Too many kids? I havent noticed, but it doesnt bother me. f4a

Too many rage on forums these days...

not the best example from houdini, tho...

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Old 03-15-2014, 02:41:00 AM   #240
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whats its bulshit?that you can connect nodes in Houdini?can you do that on RF?

Can you make variable viscosity on RF? on hybrido?with maps?how about in 3d?with procedurals?

This its the flip solver
Can you see this detail on RF?

Rf its old fine if you want to do small things but the sph solver its not made for do big things and hybrido well,imho looks bad,but anyone its free to choose the tools that fits better,but imho RF with python its slow as hell
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Old 03-15-2014, 02:50:23 AM   #241
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This is a Houdini thread now?
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Old 03-15-2014, 03:13:59 AM   #242
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well xsi its dead,so no much to talk.
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Old 03-15-2014, 03:17:04 AM   #243
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No, no bullshit on that. Houdini is a powerfull tool, I've said it before and I say it now. There is no nodes in RF (as I remember) but I dont care. Right now, I cant remember anything that cant be done without houdini, thats it...

btw, there is a RF version for houdini...
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Old 03-15-2014, 03:26:17 AM   #244
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I wouldn't call houdini slow any more, I just played around with both rf and houdini and I got a lot faster simulations in houdini. And I have to say I like the procedural way there, you can really have total control and you don't need that much scripting. A vopsop can do much of what you need.
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Old 03-15-2014, 03:54:24 AM   #245
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You could debate how great your fave software is for years and not get anywhere if you are not prepared to look at things from all sides.

Fact is XSI was a great package (in the end)
Early days it had great promise but sadly the road block that is AD came allong and it never reached its full potential.

Fact is ALL the top end 3D software and some of the lower end 3D software can fill the hole left by XSI

if you hate AD then go to Houdini/lightwave/C4D/Modo and many many others.

I use all of the above as well as 3DS

Poly work, want to do it fast... Lightwave or Modo (both great renderers as well)
Motion graphics, and now great rendering C4D
want allot in one free package go Blender (not a joy to use for me but some like it)

but... got a demanding client with a monster project that will NOT accept any compromise then Houdini is your tool

Sure you can get great plugins for fluids on almost all 3D apps
Most have ok, even great cloth sim
Some even now have C- grade fracture and breaking (looking at you lightwave)
as painful as this may be MOST of the best plugins are for 3DS

But if you NEED all these things to interact with each other, if you want to learn ONE workflow for...
Dynamics
Fluids
Particles
Finite Element solver (the mother of all dynamics breakable squishy goodness)
Cloth
Hair
Volumes
Modelling
Animating/Rigging
Muscles
and much much more

Houdini is you only choice


But here is the rub
If you are not used to ICE, Houdini may as well be written in Swahili


P.S. if you think Houdini is slow its because you are doing it wrong
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Old 03-15-2014, 03:56:34 AM   #246
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Yes vopsop are like drugs for nerds,the fact you can do operations on near anything its just amazing and relaxing,the only drawback its to find people,i mean you can make small gigs alone,but if you need a hand its get very hard to find people.

Its like Xsi but worst,at least here.
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Old 03-15-2014, 10:23:50 AM   #247
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Thanks to autosuck for killing a great program.
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Old 03-15-2014, 11:04:36 AM   #248
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Cross your fingers and hope they dont buy out Houdini lightwave Modo or C4D...

Or even worse... buy out Zbrush...ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
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Old 03-15-2014, 11:22:54 AM   #249
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I hope they buy zBrush and give it a logical GUI.
And I'm pretty sure C4D will never be bought btw.
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Old 03-15-2014, 12:25:10 PM   #250
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@sanjiro666
you made it very clear. Not that I agree with everything, but in general its all there. So you're like AD, you broke the discussion.

But be ready to see more and more software being bought by them. They do it for 20 years now, its in their blood. Most of all plugins, they love to buy them and stop their production.

Its capitalism, americans invented it and now you have to suck it. You can buy and sell everything, even your mother if there is a market.

Houdini is a great 3D package, except for modelling. For poly I'm with modo now.
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