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Old 03-15-2014, 01:07:39 PM   #251
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somehow i don't get all this panic, maybe someone could give me a hint
Ok, AD has announced the end of Softimage with a support end of 2016. It's a shame.
If I remember correctly the same discussion happens when MS, Avid or AD has bought XSI/softimage. Maybe XSI will be on sale again then we might have the same discussion in few years.
On the other hand it would be a shame to kill such a promising piece of soft, but similar happens also with other promising soft.

Will Softimage stop to work after 2016 ? I don't think so! You could still work with SI for the next few years without problem.
Updates? If you look closely: what was the "must have" update in the last 3 Years ? Ok, some bug-fixes but most of the serious XSI-User know already a workaround for those glitches.

so lets say you could still work more than 5 years with SI until it starts to hurt -> how would CG have changed in 5 years?
Well, atm i am working in a well known studio with max9 on a NT4 machine, that's for long lively


A word about houdini: would be an alternative to XSI, very promising and few studios have already started to migrate it to their workflow.
And for using or learning Houdini: throw away your knowledge / workflow from other Soft and start from scratch, if you have mastered the basics you will be surprised how easy the real work will be.
Even modeling will be easy. that said it took me 2 years and now i am quicker at modeling with houdini than in other soft. but thats for complex models, for simple ones i still use SI
Houdini is unusual to operate but so is Zbrush and few of us have no problem with the Zbrush-GUI hell .

cheers
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Old 03-15-2014, 01:20:21 PM   #252
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Zbrush, you get used to it... but its weird thinking.
Anyways, I dont see an NT4 machine alive for years. We had a bunch of them, but all dead over time. IBM dual preocessor with a matrox inside!!! And talking about oldies, there was a super uber piece of software there called Edit, from Discreet. Maybe the simplest editor ever made.

With this I say bey,bey to xsi and welcome to whatever will come, I dont care anymore. I've done my mourning.
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Old 03-15-2014, 01:28:37 PM   #253
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it's just simple math nothing complicated, you just need some time to get used to VopSop
if you are used to ICE picking up Houdini's Vop Sop is a no brainer
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Old 03-15-2014, 03:45:12 PM   #254
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An alternative... for those doing VFX houdini is the most logical choice. For the other, well, my interest upon Blender start increasing day after day. The GUI is nice, and all the software is based upon simplicity. Also, ADSK cannot buy it, never. After the death of Silo and now a giant like softimage, well, blender is the only safe harbour.
Also development is costant, and I bet for a small or one man band like me it will fit better than other commercial software.

Need to be studied, like any other software. I was stuck when understood the rigging and animation workflow, is not softimage but is pretty good. I'll donate my next subscription, previous destined to softimage (well, not all the money...), to Blender Foundation, I'm sure they'll do a better use compared to autodicks.
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Old 03-15-2014, 04:56:18 PM   #255
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Very interesting read.
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Old 03-15-2014, 07:16:23 PM   #256
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Blender is a great tool with a solid dedicated team.

Only problem I have with it is its core.

most of the big names ( if not all ) have recently made big improvements in the data handling side of the fence.
This makes it possible to work on some very big very detailed scenes. (XSI has always been good in this area)

Blender just cant hack it in that department
Having said that, you just adapt and work old school
Lots of composites and sort it out in post.

Pull in a detailed character from zbrush (low rez but detailed and with dmaps) and blender is already kicking %$#@ up hill
Try to work on files pulled from cad packages and the problem is worse.

If thats not an issue for you and you need to move from XSI then Blender is a great place to lay your hat.
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Old 03-15-2014, 11:21:26 PM   #257
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In the long run , even Max and Maya will be retired as indivdual apps and some merged MonsterApp will appear and AD will come up with some Cloud-based subscription Crap like Adobe is already doing. Well, maybe in 10 years or so , Blender will be usable for anything but primitives. Problem is, Windows 10+ will go the same doomed path into the Cloud. So, if there is any future for 3D, its probably Linux + Houdini (if SideFx is still around then.) I'm just a hobbyist, but that's how i see the not so bright future.
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Old 03-15-2014, 11:41:03 PM   #258
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Well imho the future its on things like Fabric Engine,even Sidefx will fall under this new way of working.
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Old 03-16-2014, 01:21:07 AM   #259
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Studios will write their won apps giving all tools that an artist need for a kind of project. Specific tools for specific projects.
Some big and average studios already do that, hacking opensource tools and plugging into core software. Maybe that will be the future of CG.
RT tools, i'm waiting for that for a long time.
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Old 03-16-2014, 09:38:11 AM   #260
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it is too expensive to write your own proprietary 3d app. almost all companies that had such tools were bankrupt. the right thing to do is to use commercial software and write custom tool sets for those commercial apps. use what works and code just the minimum necessary. all big companies do so, nobody is writing custom software any more. you just can't compete with a big company like autodesk, foundry or sidefx and there is no point in that. nobody is investing in writing a 3d from scratch, it's too complicated and expensive.
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Old 03-16-2014, 09:43:47 AM   #261
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This thread seems increasingly more interesting. But I wonder if it is worth the effort to learn from scratch as a commercial soft houdini or cinema 4d, or just focus directly on Blender.
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Old 03-16-2014, 09:58:48 AM   #262
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I using every days zbrush, and force myself to use blender into my work (fight against habits is very hard battle). Blender/zbrush work better than I expected, better than Modo/zbrush combo (and I'm not an Hobbyist, I pay my bill and live with that)

the viewport is weak, but is better compared to modo. Also there is some tips for improving the performance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQLPlOHdmbI

I arrived to 10.000.000 polygons, not good like softimage performance, but is good enough for my daily work.

and not only this, viewport FX is around the corner, the first branch code financed by Google Summer of Code is now ready, probably will be operative and merged on 2.72 release. This project will update viewport speed, data flux and will add some nice viewport features.

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People think software parts can be separated and sticky to other software like lego block. Like ICE cannot be ported into maya (they can develop something similar), also they cannot fuse applications.

You don't know blender, so stop bashing it and take a look at blenderartists gallery, you'll find some big surprise. Blender opensource/free software is a stigmata, people think is not good because is free... but even Linux is free.

Repeat, blender cannot replace softimage for TD and in general is weak (but interesting) VFX tool, but for modelling, texturing and rendering stills (and even a very good animation tool) is a very damn good tool, IMO superior to ultra hyped Maya.
A little (serious) comparative on animation side:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr9S1C6wmiA

Developers need support.And with very few resource they doing great things, the reason is all money going on coders, without ultra payed CEO or shareholders.

On technical side, blender steps into right direction:
http://vimeo.com/87210801#at=0

The developers as an estimate ETA for this summer. As many other Blender projects, you have not the security this project will be completed (in time or never), but blender need support, and developer need money.

Blender worth to be learned, is an High Lander, cannot be purchased by ADSK, cannot bankrupt.

On the side note agree, probably Fabric Engine will be a viable alternative for a TD XSI user.

Also is true the big company use and will use more proprietary tool, but I, and many others, will never work for this company, and freelancer will continuing to use commercial and open source software.

On side note, seems all need tools for realize the new Hollywood blockbuster...
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Old 03-16-2014, 12:07:53 PM   #263
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I think that the naiad (bifrost) engine will be the new backbone for a new ICE engine, maya sure can need something better for point and particle manipulation.
Otherwise it is as stated earlier, houdini is the only viable option and it has gotten real fast with the latest releases. Also look at the speed they come out with updates and bugfixes compared to AD that release a couple of servicepacks a year.
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Old 03-16-2014, 12:10:53 PM   #264
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Blender is great, its free and a lot studios use it. Not only for freelancers.
And maybe that is why blender is alive and have a bright future (not because its free, but because its open), studios can put some money in devs hands to support the project as they use it commercially.

We have here some 3D schools that use blender to teach 3D professionally. Those who learn with blender will stick with blender as main tool. Ofc you will need some cutting edge tools for some projects, and main stream apps gives you that. The best thing to do is to be very open to new approaches like fabric, sculptris, 3dcoat or allegorithmic. Sometimes free, sometimes with a few bucks you can do a party.
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Old 03-16-2014, 12:50:42 PM   #265
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Guys, wait for the final release of maya 2015 so you can test bifrost properly. You don't even know what is all about, if it's comparable with ICE or Houdini. There is little information about it so wait and see. Autodesk is not smart enough to have a clear vision of the future, they could shape the future but they are not capable of making any good decision, as i stated earlier they are driven by numbers, numbers of clients and potential clients nothing more. There are very nice and capable guys at Autodesk but they will never have a say in marketing decisions they are considered geeks and ignored. The guys that were shaping the future of 3d in the 90s are almost silent these days not sure if they will not be fired the next day by an ass licking hotshot that thinks he knows everything. The only people Autodesk has to answer to are the shareholders and those guys are looking at profit nothing more.

The main issue with Autodesk is that they want to take shortcuts and not do anything from the start so they buy other companies thinking they will incorporate other tech in their "own" but it never works since they have either fired or pissed off exactly the only people that knew how to do it. So they end up with redundant tech they know nothing about and they are trying to sell it as a top tech for pure marketing reasons. When the sales go down to much they kill the product trying to steer the customers to what they think is the future, in xsi's case it's maya.

Do you think that there are many devs from the original maya, max or xsi still working at Autodesk in key positions? Nope, they all left, well, almost since Duncan Brinsmead is still there. Duncan was the mastermind behind many new tech that today we take for granted but it feels like he's silenced by other interests in the company. Duncan is a small genius, he's a master in art and coding, a very rare combination. If he can't really have any say who can?

So don't get your hopes too high with Bifrost, time will tell. Same for maya!

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Old 03-16-2014, 02:36:24 PM   #266
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Maya 2015 is now downloadable, is not the final release, but is close. ATM Maya bifront is not like ICE and is far from houdini, maybe in 2016 release.

I sticky with softimage (I have the 2013 release), in the meantime bet upon blender.

One software I'd like to learn is cinema, but really, I'm too lazy and learn another (expensive) application is not for me (hey, I'm starting to get old
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Old 03-16-2014, 03:30:45 PM   #267
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so, AD first rise price to 2-3k$, stop develop new things but start produce new bugs in return will be a not to deal with GUI because it will be more preoccupied in attempt to take as many things shift in Mudbox, etc. after some time probably kill it.

Zbrush have GUI which is a practical, can you who that so much complain about describe how be a good GUI for Zb should look like. With all the features that Zbrush has.
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Old 03-16-2014, 06:52:11 PM   #268
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I dont think its about the GUI, its about the logic behind it. But once again, when you get used to it, it works.
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:38:32 PM   #269
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Zbrush may be more powerful but mudbox is much easier to pick up the basics.
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:50:16 PM   #270
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Bifrost its just Naiad on Maya,more integrated,Marcus tell this several times,its just a bridge,its not even inside maya,and its a flip solver,not Ice,and very very far from Houidni.

Develop something like Houdini its not easy and it cost lots of money and time,not to mention dedication,things that AD cleary dont have.Imagine this guys talking with people that only want to ear about money,can they talk about development,talk about years of trowing money with no return??.It wont happen AD its dead from some time now,its just a matter of time,its just a matter of more kids jumping outside Maya.

Main business its CAD not VFX not Games,i cant blame them they manage to maximise proffit,they manage to keep retarded people buying subscriptions,including Xsi users
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:06:46 PM   #271
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Last news!!!: Google buys Autodesk. Sketchup for everybody...
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Old 03-17-2014, 08:34:17 PM   #272
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please !! .
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moin, moin ...
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Old 03-17-2014, 08:37:31 PM   #273
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Default The psychological analysis of ciuccio?s comment.

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Being "too lazy and learn another (expensive) application" gives the EGO temporally the illusion of control or than it is something that can be - if it is necessary - immediately be overcome.
The second excuse "I'm starting to get old" soften the suppressed self-knowledge about the fact that the lazyness is actually something more insurmountable like "stupidity" or the lack of cognitive capacity one unconsciously feels but can?t admit at all.

This is the perfect self-deception.

The temporary "I?m just too lazy" ... doesn?t work in the long run though... this is why you need the second "I'm starting to get old" conviction to terminate your aspirations without hurting your EGO.

With this attitude you can remain a loser for the rest of your life without feeling bad about yourself at all. Later you when you get old, fat, bald and reflect on your past you have to develop all kind of conspiracy theories about "fact"
why you didn?t have a chance in the first place... in order to make sense of your life.


Other excuses for wannabe CG-Artists without any talent are: (please don?t use them anymore)
- Autodesk killed Softimage else I would be today the best CG-Artist in the world.
- Cinema 4D is to blame because they never reached the level of the other pro- applications
- 3ds Max is too old and it?s Viewport is just too slow.
- Lightwave is amazing but unfortunately the most underrated 3d application in the industry.
- Houdini is just too complex, and it?s modeling sucks and in general way too slow.
- Modo always lacks the necessary features.
- Maya has all features, but I can?t use them because Maya crashes all the time.
- I can?t get a cracked version of Renderman
- Arnold is to slow.
- The real Pros use proprietary software, which I don?t have.
- I?m too lazy.
- I?m too old.
- I?m waiting for the latest version!
- I?m waiting for a more stable crack!
- It is not release yet!
- etc.

... but for some reason other CG-Artists are winning tones Oscars with the exact same fucking software, because the have something that you don?t have and probably never get because it can?t be download nor crack...
it is called talent, is is self-developed and can therefore only be earned !

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Old 03-17-2014, 09:11:11 PM   #274
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"- I can?t get a cracked version of Renderman"
Lol.
That's the best one...
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:46:53 PM   #275
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The guy is 72 now, what else do you expect? CG viagra? Give him a break...
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:13:54 AM   #276
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Default Talk about being old

Anybody remember PRISMS?

A History Of Coding:
nickvanzutphen.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=73:hi storyofcoding&catid=45:inspiration&Itemid=55
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:49:33 AM   #277
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The difference between being a real pro and a "not-quite-a-pro" is simple: reasons for failure

A pro will not give up no matter what tools he has, he will succeed (he'll be pissed a lot but that's the only funny part of the job) while a "not-quite-a-pro" will rant all day long about how he could have done something great but the tools he had did not work, the plugins don't do what he needs, he's computer crashed, the list is endless but mostly about how is not his fault.

In the end we're making images which are made out of pixels so theoretically you could paint pixel by pixel, frame by frame until the job is done. It might not sound nice but believe you me, most of the great shots are made by artists who more often than they should, paint and correct frame by frame until it looks right. Take a look at Terminator 2, at that time there was no tracking, still they managed to track the CG liquid metal robot in 3d space, also the transition from metal to flesh is painted frame by frame in Matador. The water serpent in The Abyss is made by animating circles and lofting them together frame by frame, there was no animation for deforming geometry, they just built one geometry per frame.

How many of today's "pros" are ready to take the challenge of making something great with almost no technology today?

So if you want to be a pro there is only one advice: "never give up"
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:31:50 AM   #278
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I could almost hear the music

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Old 03-18-2014, 10:47:15 AM   #279
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What he said. However, that does not change the fact that Autodesk are c***s.
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Old 03-18-2014, 03:18:54 PM   #280
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Default IN10Se@ an answer to "psychological analysis of ciuccio?

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Thanks but hope you did a general discussion and not specifically about me.

I like something about Cinema, but don't worth learning it, not because is useless in general, but because is useless for me. ATM softimage/zbrush fit very well all my need. In the meantime I forcing myself to learn blender (and I deep study Modo before blender), and just yesterday I received my fee for a work totally done in blender and a bit of zbrush.

If I was into motion graphic field, or need or want work in these market, for sure I must learn Cinema. But I have not interest in motion graphic, but not because I don't want work in motion graphic but I don't know nothing about the market (usual fee, customers etc. etc.), so my use of Cinema will be the some I did and actual doing with softimage and blender, an overlap in my actual tools set. So, don't need (and have not any incentive) to learn and buying CInema.

So, don't use words like "loser", your ideas about myself do not interest me at all, but are at least inappropriate.
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Old 03-18-2014, 06:32:16 PM   #281
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Por rmi todos a cagar!!...
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:06:02 PM   #282
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Some good new for softimage... user can use it after 2016, autodesk only propose to migrate the license to ds and Maya, but it's only a proposition... softimage: no more update after 2016 but not dead....
go to autodesk.com and see... it's very new, but autodesk take care of users...
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Old 03-19-2014, 06:19:33 PM   #283
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Fuck you AD, fuck you so much!
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Old 03-20-2014, 02:20:13 AM   #284
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haha yeah right.
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Old 03-20-2014, 02:45:43 AM   #285
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Farewell, old friend...

I've used XSI for so long I'm a bit scared of the other softwares.
Thankfully we pirates will be able to use it longer, they decided to stop the licensing server in 2016 and alienate all the paying customers, trying to force them into Maya/Max.

Max will be next, the 2015 release was the worst in history.
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Old 03-20-2014, 10:02:55 AM   #286
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BethA,

In fact, they said, that legal customers with license, could keep using Softimage after 2016.
So.., now it's all about indie devs, to keep doing amazing things with softimage.
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Old 03-20-2014, 10:31:11 AM   #287
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Pros are going to adapt to the market, wheter they'll switch to Maya or Houdini, because as you said, in the end, what is important is the final product that you're giving to the customer, because most of the time the customer doesn't care about what software you're using, they just want the final product to be perfect and possibly cheap.

From the Pro side one of the major problem is the fact that right now they had their own pipeline, built with scripts or based on ICE power in order to create something which is not possible to create in other software, because of the easier way to create them with ICE itself.
not only that, but the built-in features that Softimage have are well implemented and the workflow in general is very very quick...
I use to hate rigging with 3ds, when I switched to Softimage I discovered an entire new world, and it was so easy to learn...
Maya is a very good tool, but when you realize that, if you want to do something specific you have to code it, it become tedious
In larger production thats the standard, you have your TD which create the codes you need, but if you're a small studio or you just take care of creating content and you don't know script you're kinda fucked.

In conclusion, the main problem right now for Pros and non-Pros is that, even if they use Maya and Softimage equally, you spend more time developing something with Maya then Softimage, which means more resources, more time, more money.
Thats the problem
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Old 03-24-2014, 04:13:03 PM   #288
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Old 03-27-2014, 09:40:42 AM   #289
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So why kill softimage?
autodesk already have insanely popular blahblah

they bought softimage even they already had insanely cool great max and maya OMGWTF
isn't that means max and maya insanely overrated by insane number of users and plugins?

its true autodesk always regardless to users.
when inventor suck at surface modeling
the autodesk psychopathic enough to introduce the pain to learn pain to use combination like inventor + alias
which way different interface and viewport interaction. of course expensive as hell.
and people do much more and better work done lot easier faster in a single app called solidworks.

so autodsk just means more study more struggle no user friendly no innovation
thats how autocad still look like 1000 years old piece of crab

in my opinion autodesk is at the psychological phenomenon called groupthink
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
tell me how much am i correct
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Old 03-27-2014, 03:36:26 PM   #290
Jocko
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Lightwave rocks!!!
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